Downtown Raleigh’s skyline will change dramatically in the next several years with the addition of new towers, particularly in the southern end. Are you excited?
UPDATE 10/08/2008:
First of the Edison updates:
UPDATE 07/20/2007:
He is an updated version of the future Raleigh Skyline rendering. It reflects a more current version of what we might see in 2008 and beyond.
Closer:
The current version of Raleigh (2006):
The future rendering of Raleigh:
A less cartoony look at the rendering:
Discuss!
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Created
on Sunday, October 29th, 2006 in the category Illustrations, Labs.
August 18th, 2010 at 9:10 am
The best strategy for Raleigh is to focus on making its core livable and vibrant. Many years ago, when I visited Bethesda, Rockville, Chevy Chase and the surrounding municipalities for the first time, I was pleasantly surprised to see exactly what I wanted for Raleigh. Those downtown areas were superb, in my opinion, no matter what the reasons are – i.e. proximity to Baltimore and Washington DC. Sure, I would also like to have skyscrapers, but I love the way those areas felt.
Both Charlotte and Raleigh have been doing a good job, regardless of how we feel sometimes. Both city’s have created cores that cater to everyone, or at least most people. Charlotte has the polish element, while Raleigh feels incomplete and disconnected. I have a better experience with both DT Asheville and DT Wilmington – regardless of the fact that DT Asheville may have even more surface lots than Uptown Charlotte. The “big city” factor may do a lot for public transit and other amenities, but Raleigh becoming the largest metro at one point in time is the last thing I care about. In the next 15 years, if we can improve the urban experience, get another 5-8 highrises between 30 and 50+ floors, attract 2-3 major corporations to downtown and connect the downtown districts better, I will be happy.
August 18th, 2010 at 9:44 am
Are we talking Metro areas? Or are we talking Combined Statistical Areas? Big differences….also as of our 2010 Census our Metro Area maybe changed/updated yet again as it was in the 2000 Census. My thought is that they may include another one or two more counties in our Metro Area??? Thoughts?
August 18th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
There are a lot of cranes downtown but they all are for state or county government buildings. No private sector construction.
August 18th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
“flocking to charlotte”? Why? unemployed bankers? 3rd rate professional teams?
In all seriousness, Raleigh metro is growing at a substantially faster rate than Charlotte. It will take a while for MSAs to match but perhaps not as long as you think. If Bank of American moves its HQ, which has a high likelyhood, a mass exdus of ‘supporting businesses’ will ensue.
August 19th, 2010 at 10:30 am
This has been on the burner for a while and it looks like it’s finally happened. The Hue has been sold with the plan being to convert condos to apartments. Seems like a good plan to me http://m.wral.com/w/biz/story/13243104/
With respect to Raleigh vs. Charlotte population perhaps a better measure would to compare Metropolitan Statistical Areas (MSAs).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas
Raleigh-Cary, NC population was 1,125,827 in 2009, up from 797,071 in 2000 for a gain of +41.25%
Charlotte-Gastonia-Rock Hill, NC-SC population was 1,745,524, up from 1,330,448 for a gain of +31.20%
August 19th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
RayP,
You can’t compare ‘MSA’ without including Durham and Chapel Hill. I still am not sure why they were separated. It was either Raleigh is tired of the ‘hyphen” or some other reason.
In either event, Chapel Hill & Durham are clearly part of the Raleigh Metro area. When included, the difference becomes more like 1.7 million to 1.9 million between the two metros.
August 19th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
Regarding the Hue, I am glad they finally found a way to “open the doors”, once more. I think that the selling point was the availability of smaller – thus less expensive – units. While I am still mad that the wrong people got a hold on this wonderful parcel, I am glad to see over 200 residential units being available at that location. Plus, the building’s urban form cannot be argued. The design may be a matter of personal taste, but the Hue is overall a useful project… I just think that the location was wasted on something too small
The population debate can go on and on. Charlotte has the population numbers and the image to go with those numbers, be that MSA or CSA estimates. Raleigh simply doesn’t. Yes, we are growing faster as a city and metro, without annexing aggressively, but the image just isn’t there. Image is not everything, but I surely hope we create a decent one before we surpass Charlotte in population, be that 30, 40, 50 or 100 years from now. Personally, I would feel comfortable in any city between 300,000 and 1 million, provided there exist some urban amenities. It will not bother me if Raleigh never surpasses Charlotte, as long as we add to our city’s fabric and make it a more livable place. I don’t want to see Raleigh having 800,000 people and lacking in every other aspect (i.e. transportation, skyline, economy, education).
August 19th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
Anonymous, the separation between MSA and CSA came from the Feds and we have no choice but to live with it. Raleigh MSA includes two major municipalities: Raleigh and Cary. Durham MSA includes Durham and Chapel Hill. Someday these two may merge again, but for now we have to accept the difference between Raleigh-Cary (MSA) and Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill (CSA; Triangle). I do agree with you, though, and I am sure that companies interested in relocating here use the CSA numbers for their purpose, like they should.
August 19th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
With regard to the Raleigh-Durham issue, it’s important to note that both MSAs are also a part of separate MPOs (CAMPO for Raleigh and DCHC-MPO for Durham). In this respect, Chapel Hill and Durham certainly aren’t in the same metro area. I don’t necessarily view the divide (both MSA/MPO) as a bad thing anyway, because Raleigh does need to have its own identity. At the same time, both MPOs MUST collaborate if we have any chance of getting mass transit off the ground. I don’t know the latest update but Durham has a very solid TIGER II planning grant proposal that includes a TTA rail station. If they get the money, this could be an exciting step forward for the whole Triangle.
August 19th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
i dont care what the feds say this will always be raleigh-durham-chapel hill to me. i was born and raised here and i dont care what the feds say thats what its known as… the triangle.
August 19th, 2010 at 11:35 pm
The Charlotte and Triangle areas are virtually the same size (1.8 vs 1.7 mil) . The only difference is one has a municipality with a somewhat larger core. Both areas contain roughly the same square mileage as well. Charlotte’s CSA is kind off weird though, because it takes up the area of a small state! It’s an incredibly rural CSA that includes a vast amount of counties. Raleigh’s ridiculous MSA by the feds includes only THREE counties! Whole sections of Raleigh are located in Durham county, but Durham county isnt included… What gives?
August 24th, 2010 at 11:42 pm
I think that we’re really grasping for straws here when comparing Charlotte and Raleigh. Raleigh and Charlotte aren’t like comparing LA to Portland or anything, there’s a difference of a few hundred thousand people whether Charlotte has 1.8 or 2.2 million. Raleigh is growing at a faster pace (as in percentage of total population) but Charlotte is growing at roughly the same rate (i.e. the actual number of people moving to the area). Both cities are based around more or less one economic area (Charlotte’s is banking and Raleigh’s is RTP) but both are diversifying (Raleigh is adding finance and other industries, Charlotte is expanding outside of traditional banking to other finance areas). I’m not sure either place is going to see any major slow down in future years. For example, my uncle is looking to move down from the NYC area because Charlotte has lots of insurance companies where he could work, not a traditional “Charlotte’ industry that I know of. Charlotte has an advantage because it has one principal municipality and Raleigh has two principal and really two minor (Raleigh/Durham and Chapel Hill/Cary, respectively) cities. Charlotte’s further ahead with a lot of its transit plans, but it’s by no means light years ahead. Charlotte is a business-oriented city that’s trying hard to make Uptown more livable, just like Raleigh. I don’t see a situation where the Triangle becomes much smaller or much larger than Charlotte, both areas are probably going to keep growing.
August 25th, 2010 at 9:53 am
I was also under the impression that Durham city leaders wanted to be reclassified as its own MSA because it wanted to be distinct from Raleigh. People like to take cheap shots at the federal government but, as with most instances, its really got nothing to do with them. Durham doesn’t want to be part of the ‘Raleigh’ metropolitan area, so they petitioned to have their own. I agree that its ridiculous, but Durham needs to learn that it isn’t the top city in the area and it probably never will be, the competitive attitude between the two is unfortunate though and the sheer makeup of the area means that Durham has a science museum, baseball stadium and theater that in a ‘more traditional’ city would probably all be in Raleigh.
August 25th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
I haven’t heard anything about Durham wanting to be separate from Raleigh. Both cities stand to gain more by being viewed as one. The decision was definitely made by the Feds, at least in this case, and I can say this with confidence. Their reasoning was that they wanted to separate MSA’s from CSA’s. The latter is a “tool” used mostly by private investors and major retailers, especially those who want to see a large population before they invest in any way. If you were Saks 5th Avenue, for instance, you would not want to open two stores in the same CSA, if the number of shoppers and demographics wasn’t there. Sometimes it makes sense to use CSA, while other times it makes sense to use MSA figures.
August 25th, 2010 at 11:41 pm
Durham is no more separate from the Raleigh metro as Fort Worth is from Dallas. The Dallas-Fort Worth “metroplex” is always lumped together for metro population stats and Dallas and Fort Worth are further apart from one another than Durham is from Raleigh. It is the Raleigh-Durham metro, with last estimates was about 1.7 million to Charlotte’s 1.8 million and growing at a faster clip with a more diverse economy for the long haul. The Phoenix metro for example is twice Charlotte’s size with a skyline no bigger than Raleigh’s. Proof you don’t need tall buildings to be a big city.
August 26th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
On a side note, there was an article today in the Raleigh N&O entitled “Efforts to turn Dorothea Dix property into park resurrected”.
Raleigh is sitting on a gold mine. DD’s proximity to NC State, Shaw, and downtown makes it the perfect place to build a booming residential and commercial district…and people what to make it a park? The whole “let’s make downtown feel like the ‘burbs” experiment has proven to be a failure (anyone remember the old fayetteville street mall?), and yet that’s what people still want to do.
Jeez. we already have a nature park, it’s called “10 minutes outside of DT Raleigh”.
Sorry folks, I’m on a rant here.
August 26th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
they already have pullen park so what the hell do they wanna build another for? if these country folk had as much ambition about developing the core as they did about parks and walking dogs and stuff then we would be in good shape!
August 26th, 2010 at 6:37 pm
has anybody else noticed the little smiley face in the extreme bottom left corner of the page?
August 26th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Yes, Laryea! I thought this same thing about Pullen Park! Hopefully city leaders will understand that Raleigh MUST develop their DT if they are ever to be considered a world class city. Building a park next to Pullen Park is just a stupid idea!
August 26th, 2010 at 8:09 pm
I think they should develop half of it and make the rest a bunch of small “pocket parks”. Theres enough land up there for botanical gardens, ponds, aqariums, a stadium, condos, town houses and high rises. It could totally make or break Raleigh. We just need to bring everyone to have a common vision and the ones who dont like it (nimbys)…….F*CK THEM!
August 26th, 2010 at 11:52 pm
The whole Dorothea Dix debate is a joke. If the state governement moves forward with selling it to the city for park, they are idiots of the worst kind. Unfortunately, Mayor Meeker – and not only – proved to be half-hearted and lacking vision. Yes, it is great to have 300 acres to turn into a world class park, but first we should be on our way to becoming a world class city, before demanding such huge parks. Personally, I favor any vision that uses 100-150 acres for urban development – with several small squares, like DT Savannah – and the rest of the site may include all the beautiful things that seem to get the “parkies” (a.k.a. NIMBYs) excited. Raleigh already has enough green to last 10 lifetimes. After all, it is ALSO because of all the green that we cannot undo the damage done to our urban fabric. Who would dare propose any clearcutting in the name of good urban re-development?
Hopefully, Mayor Meeker and the rest of the city council will fail to put their hands on this great property. We have gotten into enough debt already. I don’t want my tax dollars to fund this poor vision. Sell the campus to the highest bidders, provided they pay top dollars and have a great vision. Then, take the money and spend it towards improving the mental health services.
August 27th, 2010 at 9:49 am
Ernest have you ever considered running for city council? I would vote for you!
August 27th, 2010 at 11:20 am
Ernest,
Your tax dollars pay for Dix already. Most likely, the proposal would either call for Dix to remain a ‘State Park’, managed by a third party, possibly the City. In either case, your ‘tax dollars’ will pay for that dirt for a long time to come….unless the State elected to sell the land in its entirety to private developers (no chance in hell of this occuring).
Any ‘tax dollar’ argument is not really relevant. As far as ‘visionary’, I can assure you the last thing you want is the State of North Carolina creating the ‘vision’ for this park. Do you really want somebody from Mecklenburg County chiming in on what this park should look like? We know the egomaniacs in charlotte are only concerned with their well-being in the first place, despite the fact there are 100 counties in North Carolina. The point is, you at least want ‘locals’ driving the vision of what Dix Park should look like.
As for you idea of selling part of the land to private developers, I wholeheartedly agree. a 300+ acre park is probably a little much unless you can create an Urban, mixed-use development adjacent which will create ‘life’ in the park on a daily basis, not just on weekends when the Hispanic pick-up leagues take over to play soccer all day.
August 27th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
The tax dollars argument is beside the point. Ernest, I love what you said.
Raleigh keeps shooting itself in the foot. Their short sided vision produced the RBC Center in cow pasture, away from any retail or restaurants. I just know City govt is going to bungle this one also!
August 28th, 2010 at 9:49 pm
Woaaaah!!! Sudden activity at NE corner of the L Building……….looks like a mock up to me.
August 29th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Where is the L Building?
August 29th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
Maybe they are just going to paint the blank wall
August 29th, 2010 at 9:44 pm
Nah, Its definitely a part of a building. There is an ACTUAL STRUCTURE there.
August 29th, 2010 at 11:43 pm
I noticed this too. It reminds me of when they did a mock up of the HUE exterior several years back.
August 30th, 2010 at 12:16 am
Brian, the answer is “no”, and believe me, it is for the best
Thanks for the confidence, though.
Joe, if the city council – and the so-called Dix Visionaries – take over, there will be even more of our tax dollars going down the drain; I didn’t mean the state creating any vision, only the city. That is the part that scares me. On the other hand, if private entities buy the land, or part of it, then some income will be generated to offset the costs, assuming that those entities will come up with a decent urban plan and not yet-another disaster. But, your last paragraph sums it up well, and I totally agree. Hopefully, the state officials will see this opportunity for what it is: a chance to generate income… as much as possible.
August 30th, 2010 at 3:36 am
Does anyone know when Charter Square is going to begin with construction, it is kind of an empty hole along Fayetteville Street.
August 30th, 2010 at 3:39 am
I thought I’d share an excellent view of the skyline (for a newstation camera it is pretty good). The visibility was great that day you can see for miles:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/Dukefan711/weather/Raleigh-1.jpg
August 30th, 2010 at 10:20 am
Andy, your guess is as good as anyone… Even my contact in that group of developers is hesitant to speak of any ground-breaking timeline. I think they are trying to re-work the “nature” of that building to include hotel and/or condos and commercial space. 5/3 Bank would have been ideal, if the developers had already lined up at least 1-2 small commercial entities and a hotel developer. I can say this with confidence: Unless we hear about it officially, I would not even listen to rumors. In my opinion, there are more chances The Edison will break ground before Charter Square, but because of the small size of Charter Square, it is still possible that something will happen in the next 2 years. The clock is ticking for this project, although I am sure this City Council will bent over backwards and extend the deadline, due to the good terms with the developers. Not that I want to see Charter Square fail… The economy just can’t support the latter at this moment
August 30th, 2010 at 3:30 pm
i have a bad feeling bout charter square…
August 30th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
Everything is possible, but I’d rather see someone else (a more capable developer) take over, than getting Charter Square reduced in size and scope, even if it takes another 3-4 years. I am just as fed up as anyone in this forum with stalled projects, although the economy is still very weak. I can give a pass to a handful of developers, and not for personal reasons. Projects of great “magnitude”, like The Edison and One Glenwood need a lot more than just 2-3 medium sized businesses as main anchors before they break ground. Charter Square should have been completed by now, IMO.
August 31st, 2010 at 10:20 pm
I went to the train meeting tonight and it seemed there were a TON of nimbys. Nobody said anything positive about it. Everbody wants it elswhere. Its like they didnt know there were railroad tracks before they moved in.
September 1st, 2010 at 8:29 am
I’m all for improving the rail network in this country. My confusion is if lots of people are complining about closing streets… then why can’t they elevate the HS rail line as it comes into the more densly populated part of town? I know is adds to the cost, but look at all the elevated freight lines in Richmond, VA. One of the tressles runs for several miles through downtown. The HS rail will carry much less weight than a freight train, so I don’t understand why it would be so difficult to elevate the rail through certain parts of town (Fairview St and Glenwood South area). PLUS, depending on the speeds the trains are coming in, it may actually be safer to have the rails elevated where people and cars won’t be in the way of the trains, look at the NC news over the last year… N. Carolineans don’t respect that trains have the right of way. Eliminate the problem, and raise the rails.
September 1st, 2010 at 9:52 am
I have no expertise in engineering, therefore I cannot put this to test, but one of the DOT engineers said that the elevated option is not really feasible. It doesn’t sound like a cost-related issue, but rather an engineering-related challenge.
While I “fire” at the NIMBYs all the time, I must admit that I sit on the fence on this issue. Can’t blame them for not wanting the high-speed rail near their homes, especially if they don’t benefit directly from it. This obstacle will be a tough one to overcome and I wish we had a wide open area where we could start fresh, without any opposition to delay the execution of the master plan, but we are not fortunate.
Like many of us here, I applaud this effort and I want to see high speed rail connecting Raleigh to other cities, but I am not sure about the short-term benefits. I’d rather get the money and invest it on a regional rail that will connect the Triangle municipalities and encourage good, urban development along the lines. High speed rail can follow if people embrace a regional rail system first, although I don’t mind getting the high speed rail first. I would not benefit from it for a very long time, but it’s good to have it if other people can use it.
September 1st, 2010 at 10:59 am
I travelled quite a bit around France on the TGVs (Train à Grande Vitesse), it was wonderful. The trains moved rather slowly leaving and arriving into the cities, in the countryside it went about 180 miles per hour. It was almost painful to get on the slow trains and spend 8 hours going the distance that the TGV could do in 2.5 hours. Hopefully the US will embrace the HS rail system and it be more effecient than the current trains. (I took the train from Richmond, VA, to Greensboro and it took 7 hours, then had to drive another hour and a half to get to my parents’ house. Driving the entire trip only takes 4.5 hours. Needless to say, the current rail system just isn’t cutting it.)
I’ve said it many times… Give me a commuter train from N Raleigh into town, and I’ll happily hand over my car keys. I live w/i walking distance to the rail line b/w Raleigh and Wake Forest, and could have an easy 10 minute bike ride from the same rail line to my office. Raleigh City Council… you already have one dedicated rail commuter… JUST BUILD IT ALREADY, and you’ll take my car off of Capital Blvd.
September 1st, 2010 at 1:05 pm
Amen to that, Nick. I have seen a lot of countries in Europe thanks to the train system. A great experience, indeed, although you have to keep your eyes wide open for people who make a living out of stealing
If I could catch the train from DT Raleigh to DT Richmond, or to Uptown Charlotte, and make the trip in less than 2 hours, then I would gladly do so, even if it was just to take photos of those areas. I love trains!!!
September 1st, 2010 at 9:19 pm
Raleigh made the “Best City to Raise a Family” list, unfortunately we are not the only ones who notice our downtown problems.
http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/10-great-cities-for-raising-families.html
September 2nd, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Jason, thanks for providing the link. I read about this in the N&O but I was too lazy to look for look for the actual article
Why they mentioned downtown as a problem is beyond me. Personally, I think that the use of the term “blighted” is too extreme, although they use “aging” in their slideshow version. Yes, we do have some low income neighborhoods with some crime, but it is nowhere near what other cities have, especially cities the same size with ours, even though those cities are not stated in Kiplinger’s top-10 list – notice that we are the largest city (second largest metro) in the group. In fact, our falling crime rate has been noted as one of the pros. Only a moron could not see that our downtown actually continues to improve and remains strong in terms of business activity and overall amenities. Unless Kiplinger’s staff visits this site on a regular basis and reads our complains
Hell, these people cannot even get the population right… They are still using numbers from 2-3 years ago, and I am sure they do the same for other cities. I haven’t done any research on the other municipalities, but I doubt they have the kind of population increase we enjoy; incorrect population figures would not make as much of a difference in their case. And what is with their selection of photos? Can’t they find a decent skyline image to use?
Anyway, I think this is a positive boost for our city’s image and keeps/places North Carolina in the minds of people who don’t know much about our state. I would not place too much significance on this list, but it is always nice to hear good things about Raleigh. Now, if they could rate DT Raleigh the best location to build skyscrapers, it would have served us a lot better
September 2nd, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Ernest ” Now, if they could rate DT Raleigh the best location to build skyscrapers, it would have served us a lot better”
lol! couldn’t agree more