Downtown Raleigh’s skyline will change dramatically in the next several years with the addition of new towers, particularly in the southern end. Are you excited?
UPDATE 10/08/2008:
First of the Edison updates:
UPDATE 07/20/2007:
He is an updated version of the future Raleigh Skyline rendering. It reflects a more current version of what we might see in 2008 and beyond.
Closer:
The current version of Raleigh:
The future rendering of Raleigh:
A less cartoony look at the rendering:
Discuss!
June 28th, 2009 at 3:16 am
Anon says “So if Raleigh isn’t mid size then what is it? Small size?”
YES!!!
And Charlotte is not a large city. It is a midsized city. Large cities are Atlanta, Miami, and Boston. Raleigh is about 10 to 15 years away from becoming a midsized city (MSA of 1.5 million or better) Charlotte is about 20 years away from becoming a large city (MSA of 3 million or better). Raleigh does have a CSA of over 1.5 million (thanks to Durham). This why Raleigh is sometimes considered a midsized metro. Charlotte has a CSA of nearly 2.5 million (thanks to Salisbury, Lincolnton, and Lancaster, SC). This is why Charlotte is sometimes considered “on the verge” of being a large city.
JC says “Furthermore, how many skylines does Charlotte have? ONE….Atlanta has THREE!”
Well, to be exact.
Atlanta has roughly 67 buildings that are 20 floors tall or better.
Charlotte has roughly 26 buildings that are 20 floors tall or better.
Raleigh has EXACTLY 3 buildings that are 20 floors tall or better.
My favorite view of Atlanta’s skyline is driving eastbound on Bankhead Hwy. You can see Buckhead, Midtown, and Downtown all at once. That is one of the things I do miss about living in Atlanta. I only lived there with my sister for a few months, but I REALLY enjoyed it!!! Atlanta is my kinda town!!!
June 28th, 2009 at 10:06 am
I have visited Atlanta fairly frequently and find it to be an interesting, vibrant city. The inner core of the city is the most representative of what makes Atlanta an appealing place to live or visit. That said, even though the skyline is impressive, it certainly isn’t a compact metropolis such as New york’s Manhattan. This really is neither here nor there, because each city is great in it’s own way, including Raleigh and Charlotte. If Raleigh included as many counties in it’s MSA as Atlanta, it would be considered much larger. Atlanta, other than the inner core, is a city of suburbs and congestion. The size and flavor of Atlanta appeals to many people, but the same can be said of Raleigh and Charlotte. In other words, each his own.
June 28th, 2009 at 11:04 am
James says: “Raleigh is about 10 to 15 years away from becoming a midsized city (MSA of 1.5 million or better),”
10 to 15 years away? We’re currently at 1.1 million and, with Raleigh’s and Cary’s growth rate, not to mention that of suburbs like Clayton, Fuquay-Varina, Knightdale, Wake Forest, and Apex, I think it would take about 5-7 years to hit the 1.5 million mark.
James says: “Raleigh has EXACTLY 3 buildings that are 20 floors tall or better.”
This is one reason why I love the Edison. All four buildings will have at least 29 stories.
I’m pretty sure One & Two Progress Plaza as well as One Hanover Square come pretty darn close to 20 stories. (1 & 2 Progress = 19 stories, 1 Hanover = 17 stories).
June 28th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
If I may add this, I think that Martin St. looked better in 1905 then it does today…click on the link in my name to see a picture from that time.
June 28th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
sorry, that’s 1915, not 1905…my mistake
June 28th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
i’d like to see an Empire State Building sized skyscraper just plopped down on Fayetteville St. it’d be the tallest building in Raleigh for centuries. and look damn ridiculous
June 28th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Jeff, that would make our skyline look like Dubai’s…a bunch of tall buildings and then a BIGASS building that dwarfs all of them. lol, not the most impressive skyline IMHO
June 29th, 2009 at 9:54 am
I still think we need at least 3 buildings at least 900 ft i dont think we have much of a skyline.
June 29th, 2009 at 10:47 am
James,
You need to review your ‘homework’. Charlotte metro is only about 100,000 larger than Raleigh, at best. Neither of which reach 2 million. Where on earth did you get 2.5 million for charlotte? apparently, you are now including Winston–Salem, Greensboro, and Columbia, SC in their ‘metro’ area.
Charlotte ‘metro’ referred to as ‘Charlotte-Gastonia-Concord-Rock Hill, SC”: 1,700,000 Source: 2008 US Census
Raleigh ‘metro’ referred to as “Raleigh-Cary” currently though excluding Orange & Durham counties is not statistically valid: 1,088,765
Add the Orange & Durham areas “just like charlotte metro” and your total Raleigh MSA is roughly shy of 1,600,000.
combine this with the fact that Wake County is growing faster than any metro in US, much less North Carolina and these delta is most likely even lower.
using your ‘CSA” analysis, Raleigh might as well include Goldsboro, Wilson, Greenville, and Fayetteville in its “metro calculation”
This said, both metros would qualify as “mid-size” metros currently.
June 29th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
As usual Charlotte is the measuring stick for Raleigh and that is the Raleigh faithful’s choice not Charlotte. I think Raleigh arrives in terms of this perception these posters want when you can talk on what you are instead of focus on what Charlotte is not.. People have to calculate how Raleigh compares in terms of population..People have to project Raleigh’s population in 20 years and how they will be better than CHarlotte..People have to say well our skyline sucks but hey look at how ATL is better than Charlotte..LOL..
I will always say what makes Raleigh a great place is the area it is apart of and it should be no shame in that..Raleigh, Durham, Cary and ChAPEL hill make this area strong..Schools, tech jobs in Durham, low crime and still a very attractive real estate market compared to others. Raleigh’s downtown just sucks and everyone knows it. It’s terrible and nothing attractive about it. The same can be said for Durham but outside of both DTs the area is one of the best in the nation.
June 29th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Uhh Downtown Raleigh does not suck… It could be much much better, but sucking is pushing it. DT Raleigh’s nightlife is one of the best. However DT Raleigh needs more than nightlife to a have a 24 hour bustling DT. I’ve been to some sucky DT’s, Raleigh’s isn’t the biggest or the most impressive, but it’s more interesting than many others out there. DT will eventually catch up. Remember Raleigh was a much smaller city just 15 years ago (60% smaller), this city is constantly playing catchup with this extreme growth.
June 29th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
to me i have grown bored with raleigh…. it is just me i guess to me raleigh is boring ..
June 29th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Charlotte is so different than the Raleigh area, i doubt Charlotte is a measuring stick. I don’t think either area is better than each other. There are trade offs with both.
June 29th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
jandrews, the difference in both metro Charlotte and the Triangle is actually less than 100,000. Here are the stats on the 4 largest counties of each area.
The Triangle
Wake 875,000 pop. 832 sq./mi
Durham 270,000 pop. 290 sq./mi
Johnston 170,000 pop. 792 sq./mi
Orange 130,000 pop. 400 sq./mi
Total 1,445,000 pop. 2,314 sq./mi.
density 624 people per sq/mi
Metro Charlotte
Mecklenburg 900,000 pop. 526 sq./mi.
York, SC 225,000 pop. 682 sq./mi.
Gaston 210,000 pop. 356 sq./mi.
Union 200,000 pop. 637 sq./mi.
Total 1,535,000 pop. 2,201 sq./mi
density 697 people per sq./mi.
By the numbers, Charlotte and Raleigh look VERY similar on paper. However, Raleigh shares its numbers with two other VERY important cities within its metro.
Charlotte (much like a typical mid-sized city) doesn’t really share its numbers with any other city. I think Tampa is a perfect example of what Raleigh will look like and feel like when it has a metro population of 3 million. Charlotte, on the other hand, will look and feel more like Seattle when its metro reaches 3 million. Charlotte and Raleigh are PERFECT examples of how similar metros don’t always equate to cities in the same league.
Keep in mind, Vancouver’s metro is actually smaller than Charlotte’s (according to Emporis.com). However, Vancouver is a city that is light years ahead of Charlotte thanks to its urban density.
I certainly don’t wish for this to become another Raleigh vs. Charlotte battle. Just know that there are SEVERAL factors as to why Charlotte is viewed as city in a higher league than Raleigh. Population figures don’t tell the whole story. Most modern day big cities don’t have millions of people in their city limits (think Atlanta). However, they have MILLIONS of sq./ft of office space. They have thousands commuting into their city limits. That is why Emporis (and the US census) has Raleigh’s CSA at 1.6 million and Charlotte’s at 2.3 million (it is actually closer to 2.5 million today).
In time, the Triangle could very easily become larger than Metro Charlotte. Unfortunately, no city in the Triangle will be in Charlotte’s league when this happens. Due to the Triangle being centered around 3 important cities, my guess is that the Triangle as a whole needs to be 50% larger than metro Charlotte before Raleigh and Charlotte are in the same league.
As for which area is mid-sized and which is not, the census answered that question when they realized that Raleigh/Durham were nothing more than two cities posing as one. That is why Raleigh/Durham were split up. No matter how you slice it, when you compare the Triangle (listen to the NAME ‘Tri-angle’) to metro Charlotte (listen to the NAME Char-lotte), you are comparing three cities to one. None of those three cities are mid-sized yet (Raleigh is still 15 to 20 years away from being mid-sized).
Anyone that does not understand what I am saying needs to simply drive down I-40 to I-85 (or US 64 to Hwy 49) and see Charlotte in person. Take a few laps around I-277 until it sinks in that Charlotte is not a large city. It is a midsized city. Take a few more laps until it sinks in that Raleigh is not a midsized city like Charlotte just yet. If you still don’t understand, than drive to Nashville, Memphis, and Louisville. These are all cities that are actually smaller on paper than the Triangle, however they ALL look and feel more like true midsized cities than Raleigh. Raleigh looks and feels like Toledo, Ohio, Dayton, Ohio, and Grand Rapids, Michigan. Granted, Raleigh is a MUCH cleaner and nicer looking city than these dirty towns I just named, but Raleigh does look like it is the same size they are. Metro population does not change this fact one bit.
June 29th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
James: It sounds to me like you’re saying that Raleigh is less of a city because most of it’s development isn’t in downtown. To me, that sounds like a load of crap.
James says: “Most modern day big cities don’t have millions of people in their city limits (think Atlanta). However, they have MILLIONS of sq./ft of office space. They have thousands commuting into their city limits. That is why Emporis (and the US census) has Raleigh’s CSA at 1.6 million and Charlotte’s at 2.3 million (it is actually closer to 2.5 million today).”
You’re saying that the Census Bureau changed CSA population data based on how many people WORK in these cities? That doesn’t make sense at all.
June 29th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
What is going on with the Trump Tower in Charlotte? I heard that is not a go now or no longer even in the works? Wasn’t that to be like 70 stories? I also agree that RALEIGH IS BORING. And Raleigh does not have the best nightlife. That is probably one of the craziest comments I’ve read on here thus far. If you are referring to “Glenwood South” – please! It’s all the same crap. Go to a REAL CITY and not only do you get nightlife on Saturday but the downtowns are packed BEFORE 10PM and also packed on Sundays. Downtown Raleigh is a ghost town on Sundays.
June 29th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
JC: Trump Tower was supposed to be 1,500 ft and 80 stories or something like that. I haven’t heard anything regarding it’s status.
As for Downtown Raleigh, I don’t think it has the best nightlife, but it certainly isn’t boring. I came through Glenwood South on Glenwood Thursday evening about 8pm and there were people everywhere! I mean, really! Here’s a question for you and anyone else who says Raleigh’s nightlife sucks: do you live in/around Raleigh (within 20 miles)? Do you live in downtown? Because you’re much more believable if you actually live here.
June 29th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Ari says “You’re saying that the Census Bureau changed CSA population data based on how many people WORK in these cities? That doesn’t make sense at all.”
That is EXACTLY what the census has done. Commuting patterns is how CSA and MSA counties are determined.
JC say “What is going on with the Trump Tower in Charlotte? I heard that is not a go now or no longer even in the works?”
Trump was actually in Charlotte this past weekend. He said it is “cheaper to buy a building now than build”. He also said he is very interested in investing in Charlotte.
I am not quite sure what Trump meant, but I am SURE he is not building a tower any time soon.
June 29th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
James says “That is EXACTLY what the census has done. Commuting patterns is how CSA and MSA counties are determined.”
Ohhhhh, ok. Thanks for that piece of info.
James says “Trump was actually in Charlotte this past weekend. He said it is ‘cheaper to buy a building now than build’. He also said he is very interested in investing in Charlotte. I am not quite sure what Trump meant, but I am SURE he is not building a tower any time soon.”
Maybe he’ll buy Duke Energy Center from Wells Fargo and use what’s available for a project.
June 30th, 2009 at 7:54 am
GET YOUR FACTS CORRECT PEOPLE!!!
June 30th, 2009 at 8:18 am
Um, laryea, you should know that whatever point you’re trying to make is quickly distorted when you use foul language like that. I think we’d all appreciate it if you stop using language like that. Thanks.
As for your point, I must say, I agree. FYI I think Raleigh has about 6,000 people downtown.
June 30th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Personally, I think Glenwood South is nice!!! It has been a year since I’ve been there, however I had NO PROBLEM having fun.
With that said, I think most folks that are familiar with the downtown nightlife of other cities are not going to be very impressed by Glenwood South. The 5 points area of Columbia SC has just as much foot traffic as Glenwood South IMO. The area just outside of Pullman Square in Downtown Huntington West Virginia has a crowd that can rival Glenwood South most nights. The Fourth Street Live complex in downtown Louisville Kentucky blows away ANYTHING in downtown Raleigh. The same can be said for the new Epicentre Complex in uptown Charlotte. Fourth Street Live, Pullman Square, and Epicentre are very comparable in size and function.
Pullman Square Huntington
pullman-square.com
Fourth Street Live Louisville
4thstlive.com
Epicentre Charlotte
aliveafterfiveatepicentre.com
Believe it or not, downtown Huntington is planning a streetcar line near Pullman Square. It also has an arena downtown next door to Pullman Square. This town has a population of less than 50,000 BTW!!!
Louisville is building a brand new arena downtown just walking distance from Fourth Street Live.
Charlotte has an arena downtown and a light rail station all next door to Epicentre.
Downtown Raleigh is missing either a complex or attraction that brings in scores of foot traffic downtown. Without hundreds (thousands) of people hitting the pavement by foot, some folks are always gonna think downtown Raleigh “sucks”.
June 30th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
I was in the Epicenter last January and it was pretty dead. Yes there were some people out and about, but it wasn’t at all like I thought it would be. Actually most of DT Charlotte was dead that evening. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE Charlotte, but from my limited experience, it was DEAD on a Saturday night. AND there was a Bobcats game that night too.
June 30th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Nick, most of Epicentre’s tenants were not open yet in January. Also, I certainly would not call these video links I am about to show you dead. The first two are Epicentre videos taken on a Saturday night at 11:47 pm back in November 2008.
youtube.com/watch?v=5ycnuFbO0kM&feature=channel_page
youtube.com/watch?v=4D3bn1w7xYY&feature=channel_page
youtube.com/watch?v=eLjX4cd1Nt4&feature=channel_page
That third video is the Arena station after a Bobcats game. Now I am not saying you are wrong about Uptown Charlotte being dead on a Saturday. However, I live here and I am out and about EVERY Thursday, Friday, and Saturday night. The only night of the week I would call uptown Charlotte dead is Sunday night. As of late, even Sunday night is starting to have more clubs and bars open BTW.
June 30th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Actually Nick, you are probably correct now that I’ve thought about it. Chances are you went to that Bobcats game and then went to Epicentre as soon as the game was over. This all probably took place before 10 pm. Epicentre’s largest crowd are the late night drunks and clubbers. Before 11 pm (especially before 10 pm), I would most certainly classify Epicentre as being quite dead. However, things have changed since January. Like I said earlier, more tenants have opened since the last time you were at Epicentre. Aloft hotel on top of the complex is now open as well. Keep in mind that you did not see a finished complex. Heck, Epicentre is still not fully leased out yet. It will be another 6 months before every tenant is open. It will be another 2 to 3 years before the condo tower on top of the complex is constructed.
In Louisville Kentucky, there is a similar complex called 4th Street live. It has been finished for a few years now. Thanks to my knowledge of 4th Street live, I know the potential of Epicentre when it is finished. A complex like Epicentre and a downtown amphitheater would do WONDERS for downtown Raleigh’s night life.IMO