Downtown Raleigh’s skyline will change dramatically in the next several years with the addition of new towers, particularly in the southern end. Are you excited?
UPDATE 10/08/2008:
First of the Edison updates:
UPDATE 07/20/2007:
He is an updated version of the future Raleigh Skyline rendering. It reflects a more current version of what we might see in 2008 and beyond.
Closer:
The current version of Raleigh (2006):
The future rendering of Raleigh:
A less cartoony look at the rendering:
Discuss!
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Created
on Sunday, October 29th, 2006 in the category Illustrations.
March 8th, 2008 at 10:49 am
I know one of the reasons it is taking so long to dig that hole is because the old convention center sat on concrete piers that were roughly 6 feet in diameter and as deep as that hole. Watching from my office in the BB&T building, it would appear that they have to carefully excavate the dirt around the piers, then bring in a CAT with a jackhammer attachment, and grind away at the piers to make them scoopable into a dump truck.
March 8th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
TC, there are plans for that area, altough long-term and only for some lots. My guess is that once (re)development in the Lincoln Theater gets completed, the next phase will be East of Blount Str and South of Paladium Plaza.
March 9th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
What redevelopment for the Lincoln Theater area? The whole block? That area should be a true entertainment area. Need another hotel and signature building with true retail on the street.
March 10th, 2008 at 11:31 am
The lot to the West of Lincoln Theater belongs to Empire Properties and they want to do something good with it
We won’t see anything for at least another 5-6 years, I think, so don’t expect much for now.
March 15th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Well, I live in NYC. My dads company Merril & Lynch (im 17) is planning on building a huge skyrise building in uptown Charlotte, NC. Too bad im not moving to raliegh, I hear its really historic though. Anyways, does anyone know a website about charlottes, skyline?
March 17th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Try Google.
March 31st, 2008 at 8:55 am
so with the reynolds being delayed… AGAIN i dont think any major project will break ground in dt raleigh this year… these are key reasons why dt raleigh is slow AS HELL in progression. i would say that if you want to keep up we need to break ground on at least three projects a year in dt to keep the development going… to go an entire year without one or two projects being started just keeps raleigh behind time. BOY AM I GETTING FRUSTRATED ERNEST AND MATT, I LOVE RALEIGH BUT GD!!
April 1st, 2008 at 8:51 am
laryea, hang in there, buddy!!! Your frustration is well justified, and I have nothing to say to comfort you. Hey, I even saw David [Reynolds] about 10 days ago and I didn’t even have the heart to ask him about the status of The Hillsborough – now I know
I would take yet-another delay over a cancellation. Not to mention that there are already too many condos coming up (i.e. West At North, Hue, 222 Glenwood, Blount Street Commons, Bloomsbury Estates 1) This is not small change. The biggest frustration must be for the developers, when the lenders ask for 45% equity. This is outrageous!!! Think about it, 45% of $65 million is a ton of money to come up with, and even the Reynoldses cannot afford it. Hell, even Highwoods Properties cannot come up with so much down payment.
Let’s keep in mind that many big projects have either been stalled, or canceled. Even in cities that you would expect the boom to continue. This lending crisis has been blown out of proportion, creating panic and frustration. Once the lenders realize that the situation is not as bad as they make it sound, they will enter the next phase, lending with caution, but with better terms. If they lend no money, they will make enough profits to keep them afloat. It is only a cycle and we’ll return to normal.
One observation: yesterday I took the time to walk around and see most of the ongoing projects. There is a ton of activity and the progress is evident… Things are not moving slow in DT Raleigh. Once more major projects start, we’ll see another crazy phase, but even as is the activity levels are very high all over. Here is a list of the projects I am talking about:
1. RBC Plaza.
2. Convention Center.
3. Marriott Hotel.
4. Block B Parking Deck.
5. Charter Square (former Site One) underground parking deck.
6. Wake County parking deck (L Building).
7. Bloomsbury Estates 1.
8. The Hue.
9. West At North.
10. 222 Glenwood.
11. Tucker Street Commons/712 Tucker.
12. Solas; yeah, I know, it is a small thing.
12. Blount Street Commons; kind of under way, as some site work is being done.
Certainly, this is not a list that contains many high-rises and skyline altering projects, but it is a far cry from the list we had to work with a few years ago, when the only active projects were Quorum Center and Palladium Plaza.
April 2nd, 2008 at 3:24 pm
One item of NOTE: One of my questions/concerns months ago was, “are there conversations and planning taking place for a new RBC Center in downtowm Raleigh?”.
I viewed a news article a few days ago, that a vision for a downtown Center are being discussed. I know, nothing is definite, but planning needs to start as of yestersay (reason, millions of dollars are being lost due to the arena being located in west Raleigth – development around that area WILL NOT HELP (arena is west Raleigh because of Tom Fetzer (“Lap Dog Tom”) and his two clowns: city council members: Briggs (the guy who’s father owned the Briggs hardware building and Coble (“The Head Clown”) – I sat in the council meetings and heard their line-of-crap for the building to be located in west Raleigh (do not want to hera about state owned land).
Conclusion: This new building needs to break ground in downtown Raleigh in 10 years – the existing building is already out dated (it needs to be a “CLASS A” facility, meaning: spend money to do it right the first time (approx. $250 – $300M). And include retail and restaurants in the base of the building. Columbus Blue Jackets have a restaurant overlooking a public skating rink (IN THE BUILDING). Again, DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!
April 2nd, 2008 at 5:21 pm
I just moved here and I have been reading this blog for awhile now. First thank you for all the insight regarding DT development. Second, I was wondering if there is any new information about the start/completion date of the Winston and the Edisto? Lastly, I get almost all my updated information from here; is there any other website (besides Downtown Raleigh Alliance Livable Streets, etc) that I can get updated information?
Again, thank you for all the information.
April 2nd, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Kevin, no.
April 2nd, 2008 at 8:44 pm
The City is quietly reviewing options for a downtown arena. Unfortunately, thanks to the visionless political leadership (Fetzer & Coble) and the NC State contingent that was obsessed with ‘my arena’, we are looking at probably 10 years out. However, the City IS beginning site aquisition/selection for what would be a sports arena at some point in the future>
April 2nd, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Guys, guys, guys!!! Fetzer and Coble were neither visionless, nor they were the big decision makers. It was during their times that DT Raleigh actually took off, so stop blaming them and try to remember where DT Raleigh was before them. They had to deal with something Mayor Meeker doesn’t have to deal with: tremendous growth. What I mean is, plenty of land for development and great demand for housing, ASAP. Meeker’s times are different, and even though the available land has been dramatically decreased, he has not done much to improve the situation. When Meeker took over, DRA was already in place, doing a lot of good work. Glenwood South and The Warehouse District were already booming. Today, we have city leaders that want to do many good things, but they act as if tax revenues are unlimited. Sorry to dissapoint you, but both Fetzer and Coble did better in terms of financial management. At least they didn’t waste tax dollars and prime downtown land on eyesores like the new convention hotel
As for RBC Center, it was not just for the city to decide. There were more players involved, including the county, NCSU and developers who wanted to transform that entire area. They were not visionless, but there wasn’t anyone with experience, deep pockets and guts to lead the effort. Instead, the city and county left it up to developers, which was a big mistake, IMHO. I think that the decision to place RBC Center outside downtown was not a bad one, for that time. If anything, we are now better prepared and positioned to bring a far better arena closer to downtown. Raleigh and Wake County leaders looked at certain success stories for inspiration, but without good results. To err is human, I guess. Let’s face it, DT Raleigh wasn’t in good shape back then. Not for such a major investment. Now is the right time.
April 3rd, 2008 at 7:41 am
Sorry Ernest, have to disagree with you. I was at ALL the meetings throughout this arena process. Fetzer was a road block throughout the process (along with his two city council members – no support from this group what-so-ever – they were the only three that shot down the arena final vote – when the arena was approved that afternoon, the room exploded and Fetzer demanded that the room stop applauding – noone stopped – they were fed up with him and his attitude). Growth had Nothing to do with it, it was politics! Fetzer was an NCSU lap dog, it was a pathetic display by our politicians (they visibly were not speaking for themselves and what was best for Raleigh). They did waste tax payers dollars and shot down any development/progress in downtown Raleigh that came across their desks. That arena downtown would have energized downtown Raleigh years ago (even without the projects we are seeing today – the arena would have created the excitment years ago that the convention center is creating today)
April 3rd, 2008 at 7:47 am
You people are idiots. The original arena was meant for only NC State Basketball and other types of events. It was going to be a no frills 23,000 seat arena, only slightly more modern than the Dean Dome. It was to cost $66 million dollars. $22mil from the Wolfpack Club, $22 mil from Raleigh/Wake, and $22 mil from the state. This is around 1990. All previous studies by the city government concluded that Raleigh, at that time, was incapable of housing a masive downtown arena. Plus, the main tenant, NC State, wanted the arena next to the football stadium. This project was in the works when the Whalers wanted to move to Raleigh. So they ending up building a fancier $158 mil arena on the same site, with assistance from Karmanos/Whalers/Hurricanes.
While having a downtown arena is a great idea in theory, it would be a logistical nightmare for the city. Downtown Raleigh has no transportation infrastructure (public or roads) to handle thousands of cars entering and leaving the city 250 days/nights a year. Everybody drives in Raleigh. It’s not just about acquiring land. For an arena to work in downtown Raleigh, the city gov. would need to prep the city for at least 10-15 years before considering to build a behmoth 20,000+ seat arena.
April 3rd, 2008 at 8:25 am
TC, it’s all right to disagree. I am not giving Fetzer a pass on this, but he had pressure from other players and decision makers. Since I have spoken to him on a personal basis, after his term as mayor, my view of him is very different than most people’s in the public forums. Also, I have respect for Meeker, with whom I also have conversed several times. Neither one wants/wanted the worst for Raleigh, and even though they take different approach in growth, it is generally the timing that dictates different reactions. Fetzer had to deal with developers who could take their investments elsewhere (i.e. Cary, Apex), or keep them in Raleigh, at the cost of urbanity. However, when it comes to public spending and waste, Meeker takes the cake, I am sorry to say. I am not against most of his plans and vision, but the execution is not necessarily good for the city’s finances.
With the exception of the first sentence, I totally agree with Dave. What he said about the RBC Center and the logistical nightmares of having a downtown arena is right on the money. The preparation needs to start NOW, if we want to see something in the next 10 years, which is basically what the mayor implied in his recent comments. RBC Center is located in a MUCH better area when it comes to traffic. Yes, it could be a nightmare, but nothing nearly as bad when compared to downtown. If you don’t believe me, check out the latter when we have major events in the core of the city. I am all for a downtown arena, but ONLY if done after careful planning and preparation. Not to mention the lack of hotel space, which would make downtown less attractive for major sports events – and not only. I’d rather see an arena in West Raleigh and keep downtown for residents and workers. A vibrant downtown doesn’t need an arena. The problem is not in the location, but the failure of bringing dense, quality developments nearby. Had a strong city-developers alliance been in place, we would have gotten major investments in West Raleigh. Still, not too late, but very hard to fix the mistakes.
April 3rd, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Just wanted to say hello to all who remember me……Not going to comment on anything just love reading the conversations…..
April 4th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
Man ya’ll talk a lot! Anyway great job Matt. I had no idea what Raleigh was gonna look like until seeing that. ^_^ *HAPPY* You may want to issue another update sometime soon, as the RS is rapidly changing.
April 5th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Even though always much impressed by your apparent inside information, Ernest, it’s TC who has it right. By far. Fetzer was a diaster to downtown, and Coble was just about as bad. They pretty much thought downtown was beyond help. Nobody lived there. It was obvious to them that people lived and would always want to live in only North Raleigh. I was once standing around at a party with some of these folks. A woman who had lived some time in a large city, began talking about Raleigh’s real need for downtown housing, for condos. She talked about how the life of a city changes when dowtown is a dynamic, vibrant destination for both residents and visitors. One man in the group just simply stared at the floor with a frown on his face. Another told her it would nver work in Raleigh to have much in the way of downtown living. When she asked why, he said, first, no one would ever invest in such a thing, and second DT was just too dead. When she strolled away from the group, they rolled their eyes, shook their heads and chuckled over the silly woman. Not locating the arena downtown was a terrible decision. Of course, Fetzer’s crowd weren’t the only decision makers. But they could have been enough influence to make the right thing happen. The decision set back the center city’s development by a decade. The hotels would have come. No transportation infrastructure? Ridiculous. That would have come, too. Downtown would have thrived and been ready for the great development that’s come in more recent years. The cities that began building downtown arenas and even football stadiums are too numerous to list, but at least some of you are award of some of them and their success. Magical things happen when a city dreams big. But the small dreamers didn’t even want to replace the convention center. And now the new conventiion center, before its completion, is booking way beyond expectations. The number of restarants and night spots in or nearby DT outnumber those available for NCAA first and second round crowds by about 80 to 1 (off the top of my head and undoubtedly a very conservative estimate). I was sitting next to a Hoosier fan an an NCAA first round game last month. He raved about our arena. Then he said it’s too bad it’s so far removed from the bright lights. Yep.
April 6th, 2008 at 1:22 am
DUH,
Maybe you didn’t realize it, but you said it yourself. Both Fetzer and Coble dealt with a reality that you described in the following sentence: “They pretty much thought downtown was beyond help. Nobody lived there. It was obvious to them that people lived and would always want to live in only North Raleigh.” Yes, this is EXACTLY what the reality was. As mayors, their job was not to change perceptions, but go with what the majority wanted. Back then, very little happened downtown, if anything at all, and the city center population was not much to talk about. Even people at Five Points would look down on downtown.
Neither Fetzer, nor Coble were big downtown boosters, nor they pretended to be, but during their times some great things took place, or were at least initiated:
1. Downtown Raleigh Alliance – without a doubt the major downtown booster.
2. The Warehouse District – bringing life downtown, where nightlife options were limited before.
3. Glenwood South – THE success story!!! Without this district it would have been hard to promote downtown.
4. Capitol Park (replaced Halifax Court) – A major redevelopment effort, which encouraged more developments in the North End.
5. Chavis Heights (yes, the plan existed back then).
Just because some city officials were not willing to replace the former convention center, doesn’t mean they were “bad guys”. Given how badly the cost was underestimated, I cannot blame those who opposed the building of a new convention center. And don’t get me started with the new convention hotel. Now, before we cheer about the early registrations, let’s wait and see how many of those conventions will actually return to downtown after their initial experience. Without a significant number of hotel rooms and enough retail/restaurants in the vicinity, I do not see how our downtown will shine when the new convention center opens its doors.
I totally agree with you on this: “Not locating the arena downtown was a terrible decision.” However, without the proper infrastructure, no arena would have worked for downtown, and I am not the only one who believes that. Allow me to disagree with this comment: “Of course, Fetzer’s crowd weren’t the only decision makers. But they could have been enough influence to make the right thing happen.” Absolutely NOT. Neither player could influence the outcome of that game. They made a good decision based on a vision that was presented to them. That vision included a huge redevelopment effort – there were several meetings on this – and it was a nearly perfect vision. It included public transportation initiatives – yes, a regional rail connection, too – and a ton of improvements on the urban fabric of that area. The problem is, the developers didn’t deliver.
Now let me ask you about this remark: “The hotels would have come. No transportation infrastructure? Ridiculous. That would have come, too. Downtown would have thrived and been ready for the great development that’s come in more recent years.” Are you serious? Do you honestly believe that? Where are the hotels now, just a few months before the new convention center opens its doors? How about the transportation improvements? Where are they? When will they come? The whole “build it and they will come” mentality is problematic in so many levels!!! There is nothing ridiculous about the lack of infrastructure. Raleigh in the early to late 90′s went through a real renaissance, by bringing destinations to its downtown. That transformation did a lot more than the reopening of Fayetteville Street and the new convention facilities, both of which I supported from the beginning, just to clarify this. DT Raleigh still lacks the infrastructure, and I do not see how we can expect to move forward with a downtown arena before we address these issues.
Now, I do believe that we stand on the same side on the important things, so please don’t misunderstand the tone of my post. I just don’t like the idea of removing the credit from city officials who actually did something for downtown, during a time that it was hard to sell the idea of developing in Raleigh’s center. In my book, Fetzer and Coble were no better, or worse, than Meeker. All three of them have done great things and made mistakes, but their power was, and will always be limited. Meeker was lucky in a sense, because some experiments by the city prior to his becoming the mayor proved to be fruitful. What I would like to emphasize is the role of individuals like Mitchel Silver, who has done a great job in taking the Planning Dept to the right direction. If they let him do his job, he will prove to be one of the best moves the city made in its recent history.